Troubling Times
This is what we are seeing all too often in our country and around the world these days. It is a frightening thing. Someone must be the healing balm in all of this. Could it be the Pagan? What can we as Pagan's do today to soothe this climate of hate? Do you feel that you, as a Pagan, have a responsibility to be part of the solution?
http://http://www.cracked.com/article_15759_10-things-christians-at...
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Strata on -
Westboro Church picketted the funeral of my best friend who was killed in Iraq. They said that he deserved to die. If he didn't God would not have allowed it. They said he is in Hell were he should be. They also picketted the local high school here when four cheerleaders were killed in a car crash on their way home after a ball game. They said that if they hadn't been sinners, God would not have allowed it. They insinuated that they were promiscuous. They held signs that read "Tennessee Sinners Burnt in Hell" (The girls burnt up in the car when it caught fire. Rescue workers could not get to them).
At my friend's funeral, the Freedom Riders, a motorcycle "gang," stood infront of the picketters... partially blocking the family's view of them... and held signs of their own, in an attempt to block out the hate signs... they also rode in the funeral in support.
At the high school, we ignored them. Completely went on with our lives, and pretended they were not even there. They only stayed a couple hours because no one was even paying attention to them... I know that "doing nothing" doesn't sit well with a lot of people. But I think it's the best course of action in many cases. You cannot fight these people with logic, they are fanatics. Getting angry only feeds their fires. Don't give them an audience. Don't give them time and thuoght that they do not deserve...these people only have power if we give it to them. Ignore or laugh it off and you take away their power. George Takei's attitude is one I wish we could all take. Laugh at the ridiculous.. and hate is ridiculous.
And the action YOU take? Be the example and raise your children to appreciate the differences in people. Except for very rare cases you are not going to change one of these people, so make a change where you can. Be an example and make sure that your family makes a positive impact on the world, based on tolerance and understanding.
I don't think it is my responsibility as a "pagan" to make a difference for future generations. I think it's just the right thing to do...
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Permalink Reply by Tambyr (Rissa) on -
Strata... I so admire this post. You always know exactly the right things to say. Thank you for sharing this, because you are so full of wisdom. I could not agree more.
Strata said:
And the action YOU take? Be the example and raise your children to appreciate the differences in people. Except for very rare cases you are not going to change one of these people, so make a change where you can. Be an example and make sure that your family makes a positive impact on the world, based on tolerance and understanding.
I don't think it is my responsibility as a "pagan" to make a difference for future generations. I think it's just the right thing to do...
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Permalink Reply by Strata on
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Awwww.. thanks, Rissa!! :)
Tambyr (Rissa) said:Strata... I so admire this post. You always know exactly the right things to say. Thank you for sharing this, because you are so full of wisdom. I could not agree more.
Strata said:
And the action YOU take? Be the example and raise your children to appreciate the differences in people. Except for very rare cases you are not going to change one of these people, so make a change where you can. Be an example and make sure that your family makes a positive impact on the world, based on tolerance and understanding.
I don't think it is my responsibility as a "pagan" to make a difference for future generations. I think it's just the right thing to do...
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Permalink Reply by Jennifer Renee on
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Wonderful post Strata!! I too feel that it is the right thing to do, but I also feel a need to set an example as a religious/spiritual community as a whole to reach across the divide and WORK to bring peace, understanding, and tolerance to our community and the world if possible...I guess it is the total optimist in me, but I do believe that hearts can be changed, even if it be just one at a time...for I am one of those hearts that has changed. There will always be those extreme individuals and groups out there, but I do believe they are a small minority. I believe it is coming together in service to our fellow man/woman that sets the greatest example of tolerance. I have been recently reading many articles online of pagan groups coming together and giving community service, this is a wonderful way to spread a positive image and I believe can be very effective in bringing different religious communities together in good will.
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Permalink Reply by Strata on
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I agree, but I still think that these are things we should do regardless, not necessarily as "pagans." I think the part of the problem is that we make a distinction. It shouldn't be the right thing to do as a community... just the right thing to do as a person... I would like to see these movements include pagans, christians, jews, muslims...ect.. then I think we will see real change...
Jennifer Renee said:Wonderful post Strata!! I too feel that it is the right thing to do, but I also feel a need to set an example as a religious/spiritual community as a whole to reach across the divide and WORK to bring peace, understanding, and tolerance to our community and the world if possible...I guess it is the total optimist in me, but I do believe that hearts can be changed, even if it be just one at a time...for I am one of those hearts that has changed. There will always be those extreme individuals and groups out there, but I do believe they are a small minority. I believe it is coming together in service to our fellow man/woman that sets the greatest example of tolerance. I have been recently reading many articles online of pagan groups coming together and giving community service, this is a wonderful way to spread a positive image and I believe can be very effective in bringing different religious communities together in good will.
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Permalink Reply by Tasha on -
Westboro is here in Arizona this week, picketing the shooting site and funeral services in Tucson. I'm afraid there will always be hate groups like this. There always has been. Maybe not always picketing or being so out in the open, but some have been way more brutal (Thinking KKK here.) I agree with Strata, all we can do is teach our children to be better than that. Educate them and make them aware.
I lived with my sister for awhile and my kids stayed there, when I first moved in with John, to finish the school year. My sisters boyfriend is very homophobic. I am having to now teach my kids that this type of behavior is wrong. My son knows that you do not use anti-gay words around me. If I hear them he gets a lecture on how love is love and there's nothing wrong with loving someone of the same gender. He's finally coming around to " I know, Mom, it's just a habit." A habit, I hope to soon break. :)
I also grew up in a very prejudice environment. I grew up in a small redneck kind of town, with major KKK presence. Naturally, because of my surroundings, I grew up with that mindset. Once I was grown I slowly began to lose that mindset. Having had GLBT friend and later even a black boyfriend or two. Yes, peoples hearts can change, but only if they want to. Luckily my prejudice was mostly peer bred, not so much family bred. So, I had a chance. :P Some people have that hate so pounded into their brains they won't even go within 100 yards of someone who is different, if they can help it.
By the way, Strata, I love that Takei video, one of my favorites! LoL
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Permalink Reply by Amrita on -
nice question Jen. i think we all r individually responsible for such things. if one takes responsibilities for one's own choices and actions and monitors one's own outreach towards such causes then things can be controlled to a certain extent. u see, people r blaming others for everything. even god ! everyone makes mistakes, everyone makes a blunder, things go wrong smtimes. but i think if everyone looks into themselves and tries to improve themselves or take the initiative to be a better person themselves, u -may- find some of these effects to be reduced to certain extent. and not just as pagans, everyone, including the christians, the jews, and everyone else...everyone is equally responsible for the consequences. i have always liked this quote - 'you must be the change you want to see '
anyways, nice post Jen
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Permalink Reply by Tasha on
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I totally agree, it's not a Pagan issue, it's a HUMAN issue!
Strata said:
I agree, but I still think that these are things we should do regardless, not necessarily as "pagans." I think the part of the problem is that we make a distinction. It shouldn't be the right thing to do as a community... just the right thing to do as a person... I would like to see these movements include pagans, christians, jews, muslims...ect.. then I think we will see real change...
Jennifer Renee said:Wonderful post Strata!! I too feel that it is the right thing to do, but I also feel a need to set an example as a religious/spiritual community as a whole to reach across the divide and WORK to bring peace, understanding, and tolerance to our community and the world if possible...I guess it is the total optimist in me, but I do believe that hearts can be changed, even if it be just one at a time...for I am one of those hearts that has changed. There will always be those extreme individuals and groups out there, but I do believe they are a small minority. I believe it is coming together in service to our fellow man/woman that sets the greatest example of tolerance. I have been recently reading many articles online of pagan groups coming together and giving community service, this is a wonderful way to spread a positive image and I believe can be very effective in bringing different religious communities together in good will.
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Permalink Reply by Sangraal on -
Westboro, and similar slimebags (no offense to actual bags of slime for the comparison) are there for the attention, in hopes that someone will violate their exercise of the First Amendment, or strike them, in which case they can (and have) sued the responsible parties. They are collectively a Christian Identity hate group, much like the klan. They are only in religious identity, hardly in practice. Considering the videos posted of the methodical brainwashing of their children, I am disappointed that they've not been given the same treatment from the government as Waco or Ruby Ridge. Although I don't fully support "getting even" with such filth, I would have to snicker if folks protested Fred's funeral with "God Hates Phelps" signs.
Anyway.
I fully support community outreach programs and interfaith discussion panels. I am a huge fan of the Unitaritarian Universalist Church. The UU has done a lot of work to bridge together different faiths since detaching itself from Christianity into its own spiritual entity. Even before that, they did good work and I love hearing pagans working with other folks for the sake of human solidarity, no-strings attached other than teaching what paganism is or is not, rather than an agenda of evangelistic tendency- and, likewise, of course, with the other religions represented. :)
It's one reason why I will not accept any religion bashing here. Yes, many of us have experienced it in our own lives, but we cannot carry it forward like a tradition. Hate is hate. There is no color to it.
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Permalink Reply by Jennifer Renee on
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Sangraal said:
I fully support community outreach programs and interfaith discussion panels. I am a huge fan of the Unitaritarian Universalist Church. The UU has done a lot of work to bridge together different faiths since detaching itself from Christianity into its own spiritual entity. Even before that, they did good work and I love hearing pagans working with other folks for the sake of human solidarity, no-strings attached other than teaching what paganism is or is not, rather than an agenda of evangelistic tendency- and, likewise, of course, with the other religions represented. :)
Sang, you took the words right from my lips! This is exactly what I believe and was trying to get across, but you articulate it so much better!!
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Permalink Reply by Crystal on -
I agree with what others have said here, it's not just a pagan issue, or christian issue, it's a human issue. We as human beings should be raising our children better..it all starts at home. If you are a hateful person, and rage on people for the color of their skin, sexuality, etc., you're just going to breed that same hate to your child, and who knows what could happen in the future because of the hate you bred when they were young.
The nature of people today saddens me, extremists and fanatics tend to believe they have the right to use tragedies to spew their hateful BS, or biased opinions. The story of the 4 girls funeral is just sad, and I am very sorry that happened, but at the same time it makes me happy to see that there are people out there who will stand up to that hate and fight fire with fire. We may not be able to change the mind of the fanatic, but what we can do is reach out to the impressionable minds that they're targeting, and help them understand that the fanaticism is just hate in disguise.
As always, great post Strata :)
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Permalink Reply by Incantis L'huayk on -
The worst thing is these people are so ignorant and extreme there chances of changing are slim to none. I am gay and it was so foreign to me when I first seen and heard of them on Youtube. I wondered how a person who is created of the same energy as I could tell me I am a disgusting piece of filth that should not only die, but pay in an underworld for the "choices" I have made.
You have no idea how much I want to scream and holler at them. I want to cause them the same pain they caused on all the world. All the suicides my brothers and sisters of the world had to endure because they couldn't stand to even look at themselves in the mirror one last time. All of the innocent soldiers who were desecrated by their foul and wretched tongues. Hatred spews from them in the most concentrated form I have ever seen.
Then, I close YouTube and realize how lucky I am to be a simple Canadian on a small island that is very open and liberal. How I can be myself to my family (who never even flinched when they found out when I came out of the gay and broom closet! lol) and just feel a sense of peace that I know most gay people do not have.
I still have fear though if I were to move away somewhere and walk down the street how can I feel safe when there are extremists out there. If they hope and pray for us to be dead in their "gods" will than I hope the law of attractions falls upon them and their "god".
I know, with the new generation movements for change, gay oppression, fundamental religion, and animosity toward race, gender, culture, etc will diminish over time. As we have already advanced from thousands of years of unmorality unto this age where we have a world strongly changing and agreeing on morals as a human race.
Shirley Phelps, you say I am going to Hell, well honey, I'll be pulling you down with me when I die then. All us gays down in Hell are gonna shorten your atrocious hair, dress you up in something provocative, resurrect you from the dead, and plop your new stereotypically lesbian ass inside your family's church and see what they do to you then. Only then will you realize you have lived a selfish, greedy, and heartless life! Bah humbug to you Shirley!
There :) Now I feel better...Thanks Jennifer! I am so happy you posted this, it's one of those things that makes you happy realizing that we are nothing like them. It reassures me that, yeah sure there are some wackos out there, but at least the world majority restricts them and keeps them lowly fools.
To all you fellow gays out there, I know I don't know you all, know that I love you! I love you as a human being and I want you to love yourself no matter what...even unto death when things become uncertain, know in you're heart that All loves you.
Blessed Be,
Incantis
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