RealPagan
Females and Masculine Energy
I wasn't quite sure where this belonged, but this was my best guess.
I know in Traditional Wicca that it is not unheard of for a woman to take a male's role in ritual if there aren't any men to do it (but I believe, from my research, that this idea doesn't extend to men taking up women's roles). What I'm wondering is if anyone has ever done this and/or if there is any advice they might have for a woman to prepare for this role.
I've worked with masculine energy and my animus before, even to the point where I no longer felt like a physical woman during the exercise, but I've never performed it in a ritual with others judging my performance, perhaps thinking only a man can project, channel, and work with those energies. I guess I'm just a little nervous and looking for something that might help me perform to the best of my abilities.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Fr. Perseverabo on -
When taking notice of the masculine role it seems obvious we're talking about the genitalia, but I personally hardly think that is the case. The sexual energy one might recognize by the symbol of the phallus has little to do with the penis in my opinion. In fact it is very noticeable that the energy found within an erection is found regardless of the genitalia making a distinction between a penis and an erection. A woman can take on the role of the male because the phallus is present, but a man cannot take on the role of a woman because the penis is present.
It makes sense that the roles cannot cross and it makes sense that the a woman can do the role of the man. I would not be too concerned with peoples thoughts on the matter.
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Permalink Reply by Turtledove on -
I find myself quite dismayed with all this talk of women taking on male roles and vice versa. The idea that a woman can take on a man's role but a man cannot take on a woman's smacks of the modern cultural values which allow a woman to display "masculine" traits but stigmatizes a man displaying "femininity".
While I found Oakthorne's contribution to the thread particularly interesting, I was unsettled by the fact that the power he described is attainable only through the perceived binary interaction of male and female forces. Forgive me if I offend, but this notion seems mildly heterosexist to me. It also assumes, as most of this discussion has, that there are two separate and polar forces that somehow embody "manhood" and "womanhood".
I know in many forms of witchcraft we work with a binary of God and Goddess, but rather than representing gender, I see these figures as representing sex (which even in itself is variable and subject to differentiations in the male/female spectrum). I see the God as embodying all possible energies and ways of being for a man (and thus, simply all possible energies and ways of being) and the Goddess embodying all possible energies and ways a being a woman could find in her life (again, anything is possible), and so they demonstrate that regardless of sex, it is possible for a human to embody and work with any energy and pursue any goal and way of living.
After all, if anything were inherently masculine or feminine, why would we find so much variation across cultures? A woman should be able to work with "masculine" energy, because the energy is no different from her own. But that's just my two feminist cents.
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Permalink Reply by Oakthorne on -
For the record, I am myself a fairly fervent Third Wave feminist, and a gay man to boot.
The ascension of these energies within the individual encompass both Genders, you'll note. From physical to etheric to astral, etc, there is a "switchback" effect at work, the achieving of personal Polarity.Yes, the system I describe incorporates the incredible generative power of a man and a woman, working in concert together. Is this so shocking in a system of magic that derives from a modern-day Fertility Cult?
I'm not saying this is the only means of raising Power. Far from it. I =am= saying that when you work within this system, those are the mechanics of it. Not the philosophy, or the politics, or anything else. Just the energetic mechanics of it. It is no more offending to note the working of this system than it is offensive to note that it is women, and not men, who are capable of bearing and birthing children.
The modern search for equality is powerful, and needful, and the individual identity should never be glossed over and called "wrong" because of a desire to affirm some larger cultural identity of gender. But it is also just as wrong to assert that there are not flat-out differences, based in biology, between the genders. To attempt to blur those lines as a whole and claim they are not different is just as disempowering as the attempt to force individuals to adhere to stereotyped behavior.
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Permalink Reply by Fr. Perseverabo on
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A woman can work with masculine energy and a man can work with feminine energy, but energy is not the only thing we're dealing with here. Being a fertility cult, there is more to just the 'feel' of energy, you are dealing with the dagger and the cup, the wine and the cakes, the physical requirements for sex. The erect energy is found in both genders, but the womb is not.
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Permalink Reply by Turtledove on
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Thank you for clarifying, Oakthorne. I see what you mean about the creative power of a man and woman working together. Men and women are biologically different, but in genitalia only.
When dealing with fertility, I can see the importance of men and women in concert and the beneficence of recognizing the differences between them, but I was concerned that such practice would result in the binary categorization of traits which are not inherently male or female, ie: anything not involving the nature of the reproductive organs. For example, one begins to deal with issues such as aggression/passivity or mastering/nurturing.
Do not think that I wish to belittle the beautiful difference between the sexes; I have the utmost appreciation for the different cycles of death and rebirth both pass through (the woman with her monthly cycle and the man as he goes through the stages of penile erection). But the only instance in which I can put any stock in the idea of "masculine" and "feminine" energy is the act of reproduction. I feel that even turning that into a binary relationship denies the validitidy of gender variations such as the multiple types of hermaphrodites.
Fr. Perseverabo, I'm afraid I still do not agree, but I guess that's just the way it must be.
I'd like to add a disclaimer that I am very new to all this, and all I know is through study and contemplation. I obviously lack the experience you all have, and I appreciate any challenges to my statements you may make.
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Permalink Reply by Oakthorne on
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Absolutely, Turtledove. I will say this: I admire your willingness to look at this concept from a position that is not a knee-jerk one.
As far as "in genitalia only," it is my experience that every trait we are part of is echoed on my levels and many planes. The power of these differences are not physical - it is simply that the physical manifestation of these differences is in our bodies (genitals, hormone production and the like).
On the energetic plane, Male and Female might be called Projective and Receptive. These polar traits manifest differently on each plane: physical, energetic/etheric, astral, spritual and divine. Again, reading the Kybalion is an excellent way of coming to understand this mode of thought.
I'm not saying that this is the One True System. Nor am I saying that all magic works by this system. Far from it. But if you are going to use this system, then use it as it functions. If you mentally fight against the system, projecting your own biases and world-views on to it, then you are fighting the functioning of your own magic. And that is counterproductive, to say the least.
(Note that the "you" above isn't you specifically, Turtledove. :) It applies to anyone interacting with the system.)
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Permalink Reply by Fr. Perseverabo on
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Turtledove: The points I'm stressing are dealing less with the gender associated with the attributions of energy and more with the role of the physical regarding a woman in the role of a man, but a man not in the role of a woman. I do not believe that a persons physical attribution limits their ability to work energy despite what gender one may associate with it. But in response to the content of the original post, it is addressing the subject of a priestess (woman) being able to do the role of the priest (man).
There is a physical part of the body (both man and women have it) that becomes erect, this phallus is physically a part of males and females. This cannot be debated, it is fact. A woman in many traditions can fill the role of the man. In hermetic systems, the above physical attribution is why. The phallus is the attribution of the masculine, and a man and woman both have a phallus. On the other-hand, a man cannot fill the role of a woman because the physical attributions are not present.
My answer is not to say that a man or a woman cannot work with masculine and feminine energy, but dealing with traditions that were addressed in the original post, I offered a traditional explanation.
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Permalink Reply by Fr. Perseverabo on
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An added note: Gender in meaning simply implies a social association with the male and female behaviors. What one considers masculine is not always what another considers masculine. Gender does not equal sex. You cannot effectively debate that one type of energy has a sex, only that it holds attributions of what we associate with a particular sex. This is why (at least in hermetic systems) the divine is personified in a hermaphroditic physicality, because you cannot associate energy with sex, only by the individuals understanding of gender.
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Permalink Reply by Turtledove on
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Thank you, Oakthorne, for your interesting and well-put thoughts on the matter. I have actually never heard of the text you mention before (unless it was in your original post, in which case I have forgotten), but I love reading to learn new things and it will definitely go on my to-be-read list.
Fr. Perseverabo: I am well aware that both men and women have parts that become erect, but men also have receptive orifices. While such orifices do not bear to each other as powerful a resemblance as the parts which can become erect do, I feel it is worth pointing out. I do understand where you are coming from, and I am especially interested in your final comment. I begin to think that it is really, as you said, "the individuals understanding of gender" that makes all the difference, but (like most things) it is something I should contemplate further.
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Permalink Reply by Vigdisdotter -
We all have masculine and feminine energy as part of our make up. Hell, if you believe in the concept of reincarnation, you've probably been male and female at one time or another, so this really isn't something I worry too much about.
That said, there is a notable difference in the energy projected by men and women. I was utterly shocked when a new member showed up at a women's circle I was part of. She ever a 50someethign lady, dressed very conservatively. And as I didn't have my glasses on, I couldn't see much else about her, but the energy was all wrong and the first thought in my head was "who invited the guy?" Turns out that it was a gay in drag, exploring his own gender identity, which is why he'd come to the circle.
As for advice to you: if others pass judgment on your "performance" that says far more about them, then it does about you. And if you're allowing their perceptions of what's possible to colour your own feelings, then you doomed before you start.
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