Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Oakthorne on February 17, 2012 at 9:35

Honey, I'm going to tell you straight up. If you have been working conjure for two months, you are just getting started. Expecting to go from zero to hoodoo in two months is like living a sedentary life and then expecting to run a marathon right out the front door. It sounds like you've got a bunch of things that you want working, but you've got to do some "muscle building" before you do any of that heavy lifting.

(Also, working against someone's mental illness is HARD. You don't just snap your fingers and overcome somebody's crazy, hun. Believe me on this one.)

So, I'm going to give you some advice. Or rather, I'm going to give you some of Mama Laveau's advice. First, do this work for one full month: Helping Hand for Spiritual Work.

Then, when you've done that faithfully and with discipline, you follow Mama Laveau's Advice to Spiritualists and Mediums.

The materials listed in both of these are: Lucky Hand mojo, Master Oil, Oil #20, Oil of Cipriano, Uncrossing Powder, Van Van, Divine Spray, Jinx Removing Salt, White Seven Day candles, Power Oil, Peace Water. You say that you've purchased a bunch of oils already, so I'm not sure what you've got. If you need help finding substitutes for any of these, look through the various recipes in this forum, and/or let us know, and we'll see if we can help you.

If you feel a call to conjure, then there's probably something there.

Now. With that said. Not everyone has the talent to use conjure. It's just a fact, like not everyone has the talent to be a surgeon. Training and practice can make you a decent surgeon, however, and the same applies to conjure. Talent helps, but it is no substitute for training and experience.

Permalink Reply by Jason Thompson on February 17, 2012 at 10:19

Oakthorne is right it takes time to master any skill. But if after time you still can't do hoodoo you could do the crossroads ritual for the the skill of hoodoo 

Permalink Reply by Elle on February 17, 2012 at 10:35

Hi.. thank you both for your responses.

I really thought that because I had success in witchcraft in the past and because my cultural background is Obeah (My family are from the Caribbean), I would have some success, but most of the time, I am confused - not knowing which saints to petition, and then when I am given suggestions feeling no connection with that saint (which is why I turned to the African Orishas).

There have been more practical issues such as disposal of ritual remains. If you throw something at a crossroads in this country, you are bound to get penalised for littering. Go to a graveyard and start digging and you will probably end up in a cell.The other day I had a glass jar containing liquid I had to dispose of. I left it at a crossroads but I felt pretty guilty as any car driving over that would have ended up with punctured tyres when the glass jar was broken..

I kind of just feel deflated, lacking in energy and motivation which is so different to how I felt a few weeks ago. I also feel a  little confined by some of the practices. For example, burning a candle takes about 8-9 hours. I cannot go out and leave it burning (fire hazard) or put it out mid spell. I was told by a rootworker to pray three times from a few very long psalms over the Honey Jar Spell... I stopped doing so after nine days as I was told I had to do this until the matter went back to court which is not for another month and a bit.

Sorry for the very long response message. It has just been a little hard - wondering where to turn, what to do. I have just sent you a personal message Oakthorne. The one month advice you offer is not an option solely because my civil court case goes back to court in a few weeks time (also getting some of those supplies form the USA will take 4-6 weeks to arrive from LM). I found a seller on Ebay (based in the USA) but she only has a small amount of the products I needed.

So the only reason I jumped in at the deep end were time considerations. My case went to court in December 2011. I came across hoodoo in early Jan 12 and when I was told the matter was going back to court in March, I had to go and buy all the products I needed which took weeks to arrive from the USA (some even took weeks to arrive from my country - I found a seller where I live, but they are not very reliable). I started the conjure work about two weeks ago when all of the products had arrived... but after some of the work - received no signs at all..

I will look at all of the links provided and thank you both for your responses which have been helpful...

Permalink Reply by Oakthorne on February 17, 2012 at 10:44

As far as disposal goes, hun, you need a crossroads, you're right. You also don't have to leave it in the middle of the crossroads - a corner close to it where you can safely deploy it is fine. And if you're disposing of a liquid, there's no reason not to just pour it out in the crossroads. No need to leave the glass behind. The roots of trees are also considered crossroads for these purposes.

Another good crossroads is a bridge over a river or stream. Finally, failing everything else, a fire is a perfectly acceptable method of disposing of finished spellwork materials.

Candles: Burn smaller candles, hun. I'm not being facetious. You can also gently snuff them, "praying the flame down" as my grandmother used to say, and relight them later. By the Philosophy of Fire, all flame is the same flame, so it's like it was never snuffed.

Prayer: So pray those psalms once you get closer to the court date! :) Nine days before is an excellent way of doing it.

I'm going to be very honest here: stop defeating yourself. Conjure is nothing if not practical, but you need to be willing to do the work. Don't get discouraged; if you want the material to work, you gotta work it.

Permalink Reply by Charlie Jackson on February 17, 2012 at 10:48

Oakthorne has given you very solid advice. 

Remember, too, that conjure is never something you do alone. You are a coworker, always working with other forces; you call upon the inherent power of the roots, the psalms, and Spirit. You never work as a singular agent. 

Analyze how you relate to Spirit. See what can be improved upon there -- the most basic and effective conjure consists of simple prayer, psalms, and lighting candles. These are inexpensive things anyone can do.

Make peace with your tradition. If you are a Christian, pray the 51 psalm devoutly. Whenever I feel bogged down spiritually I go to confession with a Catholic priest and then take a cleansing bath and say my penance.

If you are not Christian, look for other ways to realign yourself to the intentions of the divinity. Every religion, path, and tradition has a means of cleansing and realignment. 

The important thing is that you do something to re-focus your intention.

You should have faith in the little works you do, but faith is not a feeling -- it is an act of the will. It is a decision and a choice to believe and act. Feelings are helpful, but they come and go.

You may just be in a rut right now. Continue to set lights and pray -- even if you struggle to believe in your work. Oakthorne is right on -- training and experience are key. 

There is an old story about an ugly man who wore a beautiful mask his entire life, from childhood until death. When he died, his family and friends removed the mask for the first time and saw that the man's face had conformed to the mask and become beautiful.

Sometimes we just have to go through the motions, acting and pretending until faith returns. We get hit by a spiritual two-by-four eventually. 

Conjure works whether or not you believe in it (belief helps), but you need training and experience So keep on keeping on. 

I'll say a prayer for you!

Permalink Reply by Elle on February 17, 2012 at 11:08

Great response... !! Really - Very practical answers. I seriously thought I had to burn 7 inch candles all the time... in fact the Beef Tongue or is it the Honey Jar spell stated so...

and the crossroads suggestions are also very helpful - I think I took the whole thing very literally...

But, I think I am going to seriously consider paying someone to undertake the work for me... I really just want to take the time to pace myself rather than learning in a hurry which is what I have been trying to do..

Oakthorne said:

As far as disposal goes, hun, you need a crossroads, you're right. You also don't have to leave it in the middle of the crossroads - a corner close to it where you can safely deploy it is fine. And if you're disposing of a liquid, there's no reason not to just pour it out in the crossroads. No need to leave the glass behind. The roots of trees are also considered crossroads for these purposes.

Another good crossroads is a bridge over a river or stream. Finally, failing everything else, a fire is a perfectly acceptable method of disposing of finished spellwork materials.

Candles: Burn smaller candles, hun. I'm not being facetious. You can also gently snuff them, "praying the flame down" as my grandmother used to say, and relight them later. By the Philosophy of Fire, all flame is the same flame, so it's like it was never snuffed.

Prayer: So pray those psalms once you get closer to the court date! Nine days before is an excellent way of doing it.

I'm going to be very honest here: stop defeating yourself. Conjure is nothing if not practical, but you need to be willing to do the work. Don't get discouraged; if you want the material to work, you gotta work it.

Permalink Reply by Oakthorne on February 17, 2012 at 11:12

Think of candle-burning magic like cooking. Yes, it is possible to stop cooking something part way through and then start back up a little later. It's probably not going to be as good as you want it to be, but it is possible.

I tell my clients if they want to burn a seven-day or any candle for a long time, even if they have to be out of the house, to put it in a deep sink or bathtub (no water). This way, even if something untoward does happen, it's not going to do much other than get glass and/or wax everywhere. Shutting it up in the bathroom helps keep it out the reach of pets and things, too.

Permalink Reply by Elle on February 17, 2012 at 11:17

Thank you Charlie..

It is so strange that you mention Catholicism. I was a witch as I stated before (stopped because my brother died in an accident, and somehow I felt I should have prevented this), then many years later I started to attend Catholic Masses (for about one year). I was going to convert and even went to Lourdes, etc. I faithfully attended Mass, but then stopped going last October because everything became about guilt and penance. I never had the opportunity to confess because I was not a Catholic and never converted in the end.

I have tried so hard to have a connection with a few of the Saints but there is just silence.. I even ask for direction and clarity to come to me in my dreams - still nothing.. I can only hope this will change..

Charlie Jackson said:

Oakthorne has given you very solid advice. 

Remember, too, that conjure is never something you do alone. You are a coworker, always working with other forces; you call upon the inherent power of the roots, the psalms, and Spirit. You never work as a singular agent. 

Analyze how you relate to Spirit. See what can be improved upon there -- the most basic and effective conjure consists of simple prayer, psalms, and lighting candles. These are inexpensive things anyone can do.

Make peace with your tradition. If you are a Christian, pray the 51 psalm devoutly. Whenever I feel bogged down spiritually I go to confession with a Catholic priest and then take a cleansing bath and say my penance.

If you are not Christian, look for other ways to realign yourself to the intentions of the divinity. Every religion, path, and tradition has a means of cleansing and realignment. 

The important thing is that you do something to re-focus your intention.

You should have faith in the little works you do, but faith is not a feeling -- it is an act of the will. It is a decision and a choice to believe and act. Feelings are helpful, but they come and go.

You may just be in a rut right now. Continue to set lights and pray -- even if you struggle to believe in your work. Oakthorne is right on -- training and experience are key. 

There is an old story about an ugly man who wore a beautiful mask his entire life, from childhood until death. When he died, his family and friends removed the mask for the first time and saw that the man's face had conformed to the mask and become beautiful.

Sometimes we just have to go through the motions, acting and pretending until faith returns. We get hit by a spiritual two-by-four eventually. 

Conjure works whether or not you believe in it (belief helps), but you need training and experience So keep on keeping on. 

I'll say a prayer for you!

Permalink Reply by Elle on February 17, 2012 at 11:20

Thanks Jason for your response. I will look into the crossroads ritual, because even if I find I have no skill for myself, I would like to be able to eventually help my elder sister with her health problems..

Permalink Reply by Elle on February 17, 2012 at 11:25

Good idea

I was burning a candle to try and sort out the issues with the errant, mentally ill neighbour (about a week and a half ago), the candle was burning to the end, the wax had melted and there was just a tiny flame which would not go out. It was about 1 o'clock in the morning at the time. I carried on working away on my laptop and then about five minutes later turned my head around and there were huge flames. The candle flame had somehow ignited the altar cloth and everything was up in flames. I managed to get it under control and ended up with a burned carpet, burned walls - it freaked me out and I decided well, that was an epic fail!

Good idea about the bathtub or sink!!

Oakthorne said:

Think of candle-burning magic like cooking. Yes, it is possible to stop cooking something part way through and then start back up a little later. It's probably not going to be as good as you want it to be, but it is possible.

I tell my clients if they want to burn a seven-day or any candle for a long time, even if they have to be out of the house, to put it in a deep sink or bathtub (no water). This way, even if something untoward does happen, it's not going to do much other than get glass and/or wax everywhere. Shutting it up in the bathroom helps keep it out the reach of pets and things, too.

Permalink Reply by Strata on February 26, 2012 at 0:18

Blessings Elle,

 

Oak, of course, has this well covered, but a couple things jumped out at me that I wanted to touch on.  First, you said that you felt that your work was unsuccessful with the man who was giving you problems, but then you said he was being evicted.  Specifically, what did that working entail?  With any practice, our results are not always what we predicted, but that doesn't mean they weren't effective.  To me, if the man is being evicted, that's a success.  He will no longer be able to bother you. 

 

Also, like Oak said, conjure takes practice, for lack of a better word.  And it takes trial and error.  You can't just pick it up and fix all your problems.  Believe me, I wish I could ;) It seems to me that you are needing more immediate results (court case), and you expected conjure to be able to provide those the first time you tried your hand at it.  Now you are blaming yourself or conjure.  If you were going to take up flying and needed to make a cross country trip, would you start your lessons the week before?  See what I'm saying?  :)  Don't get discouraged!! 

 

As Oak was fantastic enough to say to me over and over, when I began working in conjure, the vast majority of it is instinctual.  If it feels right, go for it!!  A "spell" tells you to do one thing, but you feel something else would be more fitting?  Do that.  It's worked for me over and over! 

 

Finally, I do a lot of work with Saints.  And I view them differently than some.  They are entities, perhaps thoughtforms.  And while I acknowledge that they are powerful, I do not view them as divinity, and I do not interact with them as one might the divine.  The relationship you have with saints is more of a "working realtionship," as my husband puts it.  Saints provide you with a service and you provide them with a payment.  So while you may develop a sort of connection with a particular saint, it is not the type of connection typically associated with the divine, god or goddess.   You say you do not get an answer or response when communicating with saints.  What do you mean specifically by that?  Sometimes I do *feel* the immediate presense of the saint I am working with, but sometimes I do not.  Often their response is completely materialistic, or earthly.  I petetion for something and I receive it and I provide my offering, and that is the extent of interaction with said saint.   If you ever want to talk about saints or petetions, feel free to contact me.  Also, keep in mind, that many conjurers do not work with saints at all. :) 

 

(Oak -- Mention of the Philosophy of Fire warmed my heart! :P )

 

 

 

Permalink Reply by Elle on February 26, 2012 at 6:54

Strata - In terms of my neighbour being evicted, this was not my doing. The landlord decided to seek repossession of his property well before I ever got involved with hoodoo. Evictions, however, take time. Three to five months in my country, because the lawyers have to ensure the case is water tight. This neighbour is very violent and has mental health issues. Every week, he freaks out - this has included opening his living room window and throwing out his tv, bed, divan, tables, computer, etc. He roars, screams, bangs, shouts, etc at 2-7am in the morning and it was getting me down. When the landlord told him he was seeking possession of the property, he stopped this behaviour for about one month. Then he started it again and I was trying to do some work on him to shut up and go away.

But really the neighbour thing is the least of my problems, it is the court case which was the primary issue because if i lose the court case I will probably be made bankrupt.

In terms of the saints and getting no response. I initially petitioned St Martha as the court case has been going on for a while now. It is getting me down quite a lot. A man did something (which is too long to get into) hence the action against him and his employers. I just wanted to sow confusion around them and for them to settle out of court, but they continue to fight me (and they in fact won at the first stage of the proceedings last year but this was before I ever got involved with hoodoo). There has been no leeway by the other side after petitioning St Martha and two months have passed.I found this odd because once the matter goes to the higher courts, the adverse publicity against these people (they have a very good reputation up to now and are quite renowned) will really do them no good. But it is as if, they do not care.

I then petitioned St Anthony for 9 days and again nothing. In fact last week I also lost my memory stick which has a lot of important info on. I already have an altar set up for St Anthony, so I asked him to help me find the memory stick - and nothing. I was really sure he would help me, but, it is still lost somewhere in my apartment.

I am now working with Orishas... so I am hoping for some change.... I am trying to stay positive...

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