Paying for Services? - RealPagan- Paganism for the Real World

For me, I see no boundaries b…

2011-11-13T18:34:41.992Z

For me, I see no boundaries between the spiritual and the mundane. Everything is spiritual, from mopping the floor to preparing a spell bag. So to say that only "mundane" things could be charged for or that "spiritual" things have to be given away for free is a non sequitur.

There are eight aspects that I consider regarding payment--four from the point of the person providing the service and four from the person paying for the service.

For the person charging:

1. Does your tradition/teaching/personal ethics/deity arrangements/etc. permit charging for a particular service? If it does not, but you decide to charge anyhow, then I find that to be unethical if you are doing so as a member of that tradition/teaching/personal ethic/deity arrangement/etc. For instance, I cannot teach the tradition I'm an initiate in for money aside from the covering of expenses. On the other hand, I can teach my system of augury for a fee if I wanted to, because it is outside the tradition.

2. Do you feel that the service you are providing is worth the price you are charging to the client you are charging? This one is very subjective. I know that "astrologists to the stars" have no problem charging a thousand dollars for a reading because the see the service they are providing to the client they are reading for to be worth that price. And certainly if people have more money than common sense, then there's nothing wrong with separating a person from money if they're willing to give it away foolishly.

3. Are you providing results in line with what you say you will provide for a fee? If I pay $1 or $1,000 for you to cure my loved one of cancer and you say you can do a spell that will do it, and you can't, then that's fraud--plain and simple. On the other hand, if you're offering a reading for $1 or $1,000 and you say that it will provide a potential view of the future, and that's what it does, then as long as I agreed to your rate, I've gotten my money's worth.

4. Is what you are doing legal, and are you conducting it in a legal manner? This covers everything from are you filing forms with the IRS to are you engaging in various forms of intimidation, coercion, or blackmail to get money out of a mark, and beyond. If you are not doing your business legally, you shouldn't be doing business.

For the person obtaining the service:

1. Are you paying for something you could do for yourself? If so, that's not an automatic reason not to pay--certainly I've paid for readings in the community because I've wanted a second opinion on readings that I've given myself. But it is a reason to stop and think before you whip out the money.

2. Are you in a good state of being to spend the money? Spending $100 for someone to do a prosperity working for you is pretty silly if you need $105 to pay a bill at the end of the week. Spending money because you're emotional and not thinking is risky. If you can afford it, and you find a service that you feel is worth the money and feel comfortable with the reputation of the person and the results that you will obtain, then no one should tell you how to spend your money.

3. Does the person you are giving the money have any sort of certification, training, or verifiable skill that makes them a good place to spend your money? Certainly there's nothing wrong with being self-taught. On the other hand, it is wise to look and see if the person has anything more behind them than "I gotz mad skillz! Trust me because I've written semi-anonymous things on my web site supposedly from satisfied clients."

4. Can you verify references? In some cases, this may not be possible. For me, I'd be a little nervous about shelling out large amounts of money without being able to verify references directly. And if they can't provide references...I'd probably walk away.

Mod Hat on OK everyone,…

2011-11-13T04:22:57.447Z

**Mod Hat on**

OK everyone, let's keep this in the realm of debate and not stray over the border into bashing one another. This could be a good thread for sharing our different points of view. Let's not let it degenerate into name calling just because someone doesn't see it the way you do.

**Mod Hat off**

Oh get off your high horse. I…

2011-11-13T02:36:41.264Z

Oh get off your high horse. I am a social worker and sometimes work up to 13 hours a day, and well past 40 hours a week. But I donate what personal time I have to people I care about and something I believe in because in my teachings, that is the way it's to be done. When you are a medicine person, you are called to sacrifice for your people. Much like a missionary. I don't think that makes me better than you, it's simply the way I prefer to do it. If people choose to make a living off of charging for their spiritual services that is their business. As I already said, I have paid for the talents of trained hoodoos, people who I know do make their living off of helping, teaching, and serving others. That is how they choose to do it and obviously I have supported that with my money.

I never said that *nothing* spiritual should be charged for, and have repeatedly said to the contrary. I said there are *certain things* I would be uncomfortable charging or paying for. Why? It was the way I was taught and it's a part of what I believe. I believe there are things you should seek out yourself, or things that need to come from you. So you know how I handle that? I simply don't charge or pay for it. That simple. But that doesn't mean that if I feel like it I can't share my point of view with others, or if others disagree with me that means I am judging them. You act as though my intention was to evangelize everyone into seeing the evil of charging for services...which I'm not. You can charge for your classes all you want, I just won't attend them...and that's my right. Just as its yours to have them and other peoples' to attend.

However, I don't really see the problem with judgment. I just see it as discernment. If we just blindly agreed with everything everyone said or believed how could we really consider ourselves intelligent? You made the judgment that charging for services is okay, and that's why you do it. I judged opposite, so I don't. Again that doesn't mean that I think you're a bad person or an idiot...it just means I vote with my feet.

If you're looking for hard data on why I think it's wrong besides "it's what I believe", I can't give it to you. That's the danger of discussions based upon the spiritual...a lot of it comes down to belief and nothing more. I am who I am and I accept that you're whoever you are. If you're insulted by my beliefs there's nothing I can do to change that.

Vigdisdotter said:

Now you're the one assuming.

Telling people that they shouldn't charge (which has been said multiple times on this thread) because it's "spiritual" IS passing a negative judgment.

You may not see it as a free hand out but something for nothing is just that. And as much as I would love to have the time and energy to see to the spiritual needs of others, I don't, because I have to work full time to pay my bills.

Like it or not, we live in a society that runs on money. And "spiritual" warm fuzzies don't pay the bills.

If you think my post was lashing out, you need a thicker skin. And if you think it was personal, you're wrong. I have issues getting this site to quote anything other then the block of text of the one I'm responding to. So I answered multiple posts in one rather then have people accuse me of spamming or some such.

By the way, no where in your post did you answer my question. Your not seeing it as free hand outs doesn't change anything. Why shouldn't "spiritual" be charged for?

My group is going to be putting on classes and you can bet we're going to be charging for those "spiritual" teachings. I don't have $100 to rent space and gas to get to and from places costs money.

Makoons said:

If you think that every time someone disagrees with you they're looking down on you, you have severe self-esteem issues. People can disagree and still respect one another, there are many people here I've had heated discussions with on one topic or another who I still consider dear friends, not to mention intelligent, thoughtful human beings.

Again, if I didn't think that it "should be done" that way, why would I do it that way? Am I making judgments on those who would charge? Hell yes. I don't have a lot of disposable income and if I'm going to spend it on someone's "talents" or "skills", regardless of what service they are providing, I'm going to be discerning and make sure it's worth it. We make judgments every day in this way the same way I decide if a food, or a song, or anything else is worth my hard-earned money. Only a fool throws money away.

To me, I don't consider doing something spiritual for free "a hand-out." I consider my role among my people to be a gift, serving others spiritually a purpose. As I said in previous posts I only do such things for people I trust and share a bond or trust with. That's my prerogative and it's the way I was taught by other traditional medicine people. I don't think that makes me stingy or an a**hole, it just makes me discerning. If I'm going to be giving away my time and effort it's not going to be on someone who won't appreciate it its worth. If some one wants to charge for their service and the other person wants to buy it, that's their business. I don't judge, I just don't pay or charge.

I also said, if you cared to read, that I do pay for some services. I have paid on occasion for hoodoo supplies as well as supplies I've used in ceremony. It's a skill I don't have and one I appreciate, and I realize that paying someone is a good way to support something you believe in.

There are many things that happen in this world that I would believe to be "unethical", spiritual or otherwise. Why in the hell don't I have a right to believe what I want? Why if I disagree does it have to be me looking down on someone instead of just bloody disagreeing? I believe it's wrong to kill unless it's for food or self defense, but obviously there are many here and in the world who disagree with me and support policies that say otherwise. That's their business, and mine is mine. Yours is yours. Just because I share my view doesn't mean I expect you to agree or think you're an idiot for not agreeing. What the hell are you doing on a message board if you can't deal with people disagreeing with you?

I'm not really sure why you chose me to lash out at. Many people on here have said the same as me but for some reason I'm the jerk. I really don't care if you want to pay someone to tell you what to put on your altar...it's your altar and your money. I personally would not do it because I find the practice impersonal and unnecessary. Again if you have a problem with people disagreeing with you or having differing views, a discussion board is only going to serve to upset you. It's not a "discussion" if it's one sided, or it's a very very boring one.

Now you're the one assuming.…

2011-11-13T02:03:32.828Z

Now you're the one assuming.

Telling people that they shouldn't charge (which has been said multiple times on this thread) because it's "spiritual" IS passing a negative judgment.

You may not see it as a free hand out but something for nothing is just that. And as much as I would love to have the time and energy to see to the spiritual needs of others, I don't, because I have to work full time to pay my bills.

Like it or not, we live in a society that runs on money. And "spiritual" warm fuzzies don't pay the bills.

If you think my post was lashing out, you need a thicker skin. And if you think it was personal, you're wrong. I have issues getting this site to quote anything other then the block of text of the one I'm responding to. So I answered multiple posts in one rather then have people accuse me of spamming or some such.

By the way, no where in your post did you answer my question. Your not seeing it as free hand outs doesn't change anything. Why shouldn't "spiritual" be charged for?

My group is going to be putting on classes and you can bet we're going to be charging for those "spiritual" teachings. I don't have $100 to rent space and gas to get to and from places costs money.

Makoons said:

If you think that every time someone disagrees with you they're looking down on you, you have severe self-esteem issues. People can disagree and still respect one another, there are many people here I've had heated discussions with on one topic or another who I still consider dear friends, not to mention intelligent, thoughtful human beings.

Again, if I didn't think that it "should be done" that way, why would I do it that way? Am I making judgments on those who would charge? Hell yes. I don't have a lot of disposable income and if I'm going to spend it on someone's "talents" or "skills", regardless of what service they are providing, I'm going to be discerning and make sure it's worth it. We make judgments every day in this way the same way I decide if a food, or a song, or anything else is worth my hard-earned money. Only a fool throws money away.

To me, I don't consider doing something spiritual for free "a hand-out." I consider my role among my people to be a gift, serving others spiritually a purpose. As I said in previous posts I only do such things for people I trust and share a bond or trust with. That's my prerogative and it's the way I was taught by other traditional medicine people. I don't think that makes me stingy or an a**hole, it just makes me discerning. If I'm going to be giving away my time and effort it's not going to be on someone who won't appreciate it its worth. If some one wants to charge for their service and the other person wants to buy it, that's their business. I don't judge, I just don't pay or charge.

I also said, if you cared to read, that I do pay for some services. I have paid on occasion for hoodoo supplies as well as supplies I've used in ceremony. It's a skill I don't have and one I appreciate, and I realize that paying someone is a good way to support something you believe in.

There are many things that happen in this world that I would believe to be "unethical", spiritual or otherwise. Why in the hell don't I have a right to believe what I want? Why if I disagree does it have to be me looking down on someone instead of just bloody disagreeing? I believe it's wrong to kill unless it's for food or self defense, but obviously there are many here and in the world who disagree with me and support policies that say otherwise. That's their business, and mine is mine. Yours is yours. Just because I share my view doesn't mean I expect you to agree or think you're an idiot for not agreeing. What the hell are you doing on a message board if you can't deal with people disagreeing with you?

I'm not really sure why you chose me to lash out at. Many people on here have said the same as me but for some reason I'm the jerk. I really don't care if you want to pay someone to tell you what to put on your altar...it's your altar and your money. I personally would not do it because I find the practice impersonal and unnecessary. Again if you have a problem with people disagreeing with you or having differing views, a discussion board is only going to serve to upset you. It's not a "discussion" if it's one sided, or it's a very very boring one.

If you think that every time…

2011-11-13T01:35:37.939Z

If you think that every time someone disagrees with you they're looking down on you, you have severe self-esteem issues. People can disagree and still respect one another, there are many people here I've had heated discussions with on one topic or another who I still consider dear friends, not to mention intelligent, thoughtful human beings.

Again, if I didn't think that it "should be done" that way, why would I do it that way? Am I making judgments on those who would charge? Hell yes. I don't have a lot of disposable income and if I'm going to spend it on someone's "talents" or "skills", regardless of what service they are providing, I'm going to be discerning and make sure it's worth it. We make judgments every day in this way the same way I decide if a food, or a song, or anything else is worth my hard-earned money. Only a fool throws money away.

To me, I don't consider doing something spiritual for free "a hand-out." I consider my role among my people to be a gift, serving others spiritually a purpose. As I said in previous posts I only do such things for people I trust and share a bond or trust with. That's my prerogative and it's the way I was taught by other traditional medicine people. I don't think that makes me stingy or an a**hole, it just makes me discerning. If I'm going to be giving away my time and effort it's not going to be on someone who won't appreciate it its worth. If some one wants to charge for their service and the other person wants to buy it, that's their business. I don't judge, I just don't pay or charge.

I also said, if you cared to read, that I do pay for some services. I have paid on occasion for hoodoo supplies as well as supplies I've used in ceremony. It's a skill I don't have and one I appreciate, and I realize that paying someone is a good way to support something you believe in.

There are many things that happen in this world that I would believe to be "unethical", spiritual or otherwise. Why in the hell don't I have a right to believe what I want? Why if I disagree does it have to be me looking down on someone instead of just bloody disagreeing? I believe it's wrong to kill unless it's for food or self defense, but obviously there are many here and in the world who disagree with me and support policies that say otherwise. That's their business, and mine is mine. Yours is yours. Just because I share my view doesn't mean I expect you to agree or think you're an idiot for not agreeing. What the hell are you doing on a message board if you can't deal with people disagreeing with you?

I'm not really sure why you chose me to lash out at. Many people on here have said the same as me but for some reason I'm the jerk. I really don't care if you want to pay someone to tell you what to put on your altar...it's your altar and your money. I personally would not do it because I find the practice impersonal and unnecessary. Again if you have a problem with people disagreeing with you or having differing views, a discussion board is only going to serve to upset you. It's not a "discussion" if it's one sided, or it's a very very boring one.

Vigdisdotter said:

No, I didn't miss that it was from your point of view. Nor did I miss you're using your point of view to say what should be done. And just because you don't like what I have to say, doesn't mean I made a snap judgment. I'm going by the contents of your posts. Which are themselves judgmental towards those that would charge.

If you think you can do better then someone offering their services, then obviously you wouldn't USE the services, so what's the issue? Why the need to look down your nose (and yes that's how you're coming off as) at those who charge? Why claim there is something unethical about doing so?

And to all those that think there is a difference between hiring a fashion expert and hiring someone to help with altar set up (do you expect feng shui master to not charge too?) you've missed the point. Or chosen to ignore it for some reason.

A fashion consultant has a skill, when you hire them you're not only paying for their knowledge (which will have taken time and effort to learn) you are also paying for them to take time out of their day to come and see to your needs. Monetary compensation for the time and skill of an individual is not only acceptable it's expected. But as soon as people think something is "spiritual" that goes out the window. Why? Do you think that the time and effort spent to learn that spiritual knowledge is some how of lesser value? If anything I'd think it's of MORE value, since it can be a dangerous pursuit.

So what is it about "spiritual" that means people think they should be getting free hand outs?

Makoons said:

Um, actually if you read my post it's full of "for me"s and "to my mind"s. It's a discussion forum and I was simply discussing the topic from my point of view. FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, spirituality and fashion are different creatures...and I love clothes, makeup, and the like. Someone interfering (which is what it is IN MY POINT OF VIEW) with my fashion choices is very different than someone telling me how to spiritually express myself. There are many many who don't agree with me and that's fine. Do I think they're wrong? Yeah, obviously, or else I wouldn't do it the way I wish to do it.

I'm not taking responsibility from anyone and I'm not "looking my nose down" at anyone either. Except, perhaps, for people who make snap judgments against others without actually reading what they're trying to say. I mean my God, I even said "I don't think it's wrong to charge someone for it if they're willing to pay." It's their money, their spirituality. As I stated, "it comes down to belief more than anything." Nowhere in there did I say my belief was superior.

No, I didn't miss that it was…

2011-11-12T22:51:59.720Z

No, I didn't miss that it was from your point of view. Nor did I miss you're using your point of view to say what should be done. And just because you don't like what I have to say, doesn't mean I made a snap judgment. I'm going by the contents of your posts. Which are themselves judgmental towards those that would charge.

If you think you can do better then someone offering their services, then obviously you wouldn't USE the services, so what's the issue? Why the need to look down your nose (and yes that's how you're coming off as) at those who charge? Why claim there is something unethical about doing so?

And to all those that think there is a difference between hiring a fashion expert and hiring someone to help with altar set up (do you expect feng shui master to not charge too?) you've missed the point. Or chosen to ignore it for some reason.

A fashion consultant has a skill, when you hire them you're not only paying for their knowledge (which will have taken time and effort to learn) you are also paying for them to take time out of their day to come and see to your needs. Monetary compensation for the time and skill of an individual is not only acceptable it's expected. But as soon as people think something is "spiritual" that goes out the window. Why? Do you think that the time and effort spent to learn that spiritual knowledge is some how of lesser value? If anything I'd think it's of MORE value, since it can be a dangerous pursuit.

So what is it about "spiritual" that means people think they should be getting free hand outs?

Makoons said:

Um, actually if you read my post it's full of "for me"s and "to my mind"s. It's a discussion forum and I was simply discussing the topic from my point of view. FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, spirituality and fashion are different creatures...and I love clothes, makeup, and the like. Someone interfering (which is what it is IN MY POINT OF VIEW) with my fashion choices is very different than someone telling me how to spiritually express myself. There are many many who don't agree with me and that's fine. Do I think they're wrong? Yeah, obviously, or else I wouldn't do it the way I wish to do it.

I'm not taking responsibility from anyone and I'm not "looking my nose down" at anyone either. Except, perhaps, for people who make snap judgments against others without actually reading what they're trying to say. I mean my God, I even said "I don't think it's wrong to charge someone for it if they're willing to pay." It's their money, their spirituality. As I stated, "it comes down to belief more than anything." Nowhere in there did I say my belief was superior.

I , like others, see spriritu…

2011-11-12T21:40:21.900Z

I , like others, see sprirituality to be a different aspect of life from fashion, physical health, and the pattern of your couch cushions. Why should one pay for something that is a matter of the soul? Spirituality is a journey into our souls, and also out of and beyond ourselves, it is where we explore those questions that are deep and profound, and try to learn lessons bigger that THIS life, even though they pertain to this life. Spirituality is often distinctly non-material (not to say it isnt explored using the senses, and the tangible things of the real world). Spirituality is INVALUABLE to most people, and ideally- i believe- advice and information regarding it should not be the sole territory of those with material or financial wealth. That is what I believe. Am I going to harass the next person I see selling "the key to the universe" or "The secret of life" - No... I won't even consider that person "bad" or "unethical"- because someone else's ethics are not- and don't have to be, mine. My responsibility is to care for my own ethics, what I myself do... and because I wouldn't feel right about paying or charging for spiritual counseling I won't. That is my right, and my "power" is in my dollar.

And I think most people are getting at the same idea... One cannot judge the ethics of a person outside of one's own realm... be it a tradition, family, or community that has agreed upon those ethics. I really have an aversion to cannibalism, for example... but I won't be hopping on a plane to tell the indigenous tribes of Papua New Guinea about how "bad" they and their ancestors have been, but I won't be eating anyone either!

To each their own. I will do what makes sense to me, and you can do what makes sense to you- and the gods can decide who was right when we are all said and done...

-Megan

Vigdisdotter said:

Ask yourself why. Ask yourself what your expectations are here and what they are based on. Then ask yourself how that fits with the reality of paying one's bills.

Megan Herrod said:

I would be a little offended if he said, sure- but first, my hourly rate is $50.

The question to ask in return…

2011-11-12T18:41:57.084Z

The question to ask in return is whether or not these people actually considered their fashion to be a part of their spirituality. To say they treated it like it was a part of their spirituality is like saying that the Frosts treated child molestation like it was a part of their spirituality. Either something is a part of one's spirituality, and one is spiritually accountable for it, or it isn't, and they aren't. I'd hate to think that there are many, if indeed any, people that think that a bad fashion day can have serious spiritual repercussions, or that wearing white shoes after labor day could result in bad karma or juju. In that case, I would be regularly incurring the Wrath of Versacci. That would also mean that better dressed people would be higher on the spiritual scale, and that's just absurd.

Now, all joking aside, whether or not it's ethical to charge for services... I feel that there IS a difference between charging for a fashion counseling session, a financial advice session, or a home design session, and spiritual council. We do not choose to be gifted with an understanding of spiritual ways, we simply are gifted. This is how I feel about spiritual advice and instruction. As for services, such as card or rune readings, the creation of talismans, the making of candles, so on and so forth, I see no ethical issues... I personally do not charge unless the act costs me something, or if it consumes materials I will have to replace, then I either charge materials costs, or I barter with the individual.

Now, my wife has laid tarot cards for people at renfests before, and charged a dollar a card... she made a killing. I started to do the same with my runes... but it justs didn't feel right, and I ended up doing every rune casting for free. That's just how I personally roll. I don't look down on those who charge for services... but for advice or counseling, well... it gives me a bad taste in my mouth, and I counsel against it.

And that bit of counsel is free. ;)

Vigdisdotter said:

Why are you assuming that spirituality is different from fashion? I've met many that treat it that same. I've also met those that treat fashion as part of their spirituality.

Why are you taking responsibility from the consumer? It's their money, it's up to them to decide what's a good use of it.

What's not "ethical" about charge for a service when the costumer is willing to pay? This isn't the same as conning someone. It's offering a SERVICE and no one HAS to buy it. As for "just as effective" what's the problem with that? It probably is, since the person paying for the service clearly isn't going to do it themselves.

Finally, you seem to be assuming that YOUR understanding of how spiritual paths work is universal. It's not. It doesn't matter that I think people should do for themselves in their attempt to approach the gods because I only get to speak for MY path, not anyone else's. And people looking down their noses at those willing to meet a need really rubs me the wrong way.

Makoons said:

I personally don't think a stylist and spiritual advisor are comparable.

When paying for a stylist's services you are paying someone to help you find clothing that is flattering and fits your personal style. When hiring someone to tell you what to put on an altar, you are putting someone else between you and your craft to my mind. For me the argument isn't *ethical*, I don't think it's wrong to charge someone for it if they're willing to pay. I just don't see how, if you're expressing your relationship to something spiritually, having someone else decide or do it for you is going to be truly effective...both in executing what you wish to do through your craft or in feeling fulfillment. Where there may be an ethical problem for me is if someone being paid to create your altar tells you it's just as effective...but that comes down more to belief than anything. For me, my spirituality is a very personal expression...why would someone else know how to do it better than me?

Um, actually if you read my p…

2011-11-12T18:05:34.905Z

Um, actually if you read my post it's full of "for me"s and "to my mind"s. It's a discussion forum and I was simply discussing the topic from my point of view. FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, spirituality and fashion are different creatures...and I love clothes, makeup, and the like. Someone interfering (which is what it is IN MY POINT OF VIEW) with my fashion choices is very different than someone telling me how to spiritually express myself. There are many many who don't agree with me and that's fine. Do I think they're wrong? Yeah, obviously, or else I wouldn't do it the way I wish to do it.

I'm not taking responsibility from anyone and I'm not "looking my nose down" at anyone either. Except, perhaps, for people who make snap judgments against others without actually reading what they're trying to say. I mean my God, I even said "I don't think it's wrong to charge someone for it if they're willing to pay." It's their money, their spirituality. As I stated, "it comes down to belief more than anything." Nowhere in there did I say my belief was superior.

Vigdisdotter said:

Why are you assuming that spirituality is different from fashion? I've met many that treat it that same. I've also met those that treat fashion as part of their spirituality.

Why are you taking responsibility from the consumer? It's their money, it's up to them to decide what's a good use of it.

What's not "ethical" about charge for a service when the costumer is willing to pay? This isn't the same as conning someone. It's offering a SERVICE and no one HAS to buy it. As for "just as effective" what's the problem with that? It probably is, since the person paying for the service clearly isn't going to do it themselves.

Finally, you seem to be assuming that YOUR understanding of how spiritual paths work is universal. It's not. It doesn't matter that I think people should do for themselves in their attempt to approach the gods because I only get to speak for MY path, not anyone else's. And people looking down their noses at those willing to meet a need really rubs me the wrong way.

Makoons said:

I personally don't think a stylist and spiritual advisor are comparable.

When paying for a stylist's services you are paying someone to help you find clothing that is flattering and fits your personal style. When hiring someone to tell you what to put on an altar, you are putting someone else between you and your craft to my mind. For me the argument isn't *ethical*, I don't think it's wrong to charge someone for it if they're willing to pay. I just don't see how, if you're expressing your relationship to something spiritually, having someone else decide or do it for you is going to be truly effective...both in executing what you wish to do through your craft or in feeling fulfillment. Where there may be an ethical problem for me is if someone being paid to create your altar tells you it's just as effective...but that comes down more to belief than anything. For me, my spirituality is a very personal expression...why would someone else know how to do it better than me?

I agree with some of what has…

2011-11-12T18:02:58.934Z

I agree with some of what has been said. I personally wouldn't pay for a lot of the things some people think they deserve a fee for (i.e. casting a spell), but I would pay for a reading or something. They're different in my mind because I can cast a spell successfully (as can anyone), but it takes years to learn a divinatory system and become proficient enough to perform readings. I think of energy work the same way. I'd pay for reiki, for example. That is a skill. Magic is much more personal to me, and I see no reason to pay someone else to do it at all, let alone some of the ridiculous amounts I've seen online (a prosperity spell performed for $2000 for example!).

As for teaching, I'm torn. I do not charge my students right now because I don't need to and as a teacher just starting out, I'm still developing my teaching system and style, so I feel that it isn't right to charge my willing guinea pigs. Plus, at this point, I am just presenting information that can be found elsewhere (though not always from books or online) in a different way to suit their learning styles. Why would I charge money for something I got for free? That seems stupid and dishonest to me (I think that goes back to my beliefs about casting spells for a fee when anyone can learn magic for free, but it's fairly customary to pay to learn reiki or other forms of energy healing.)

I have considered teaching both online and in person for a fee. I personally wouldn't do it until I had something unique to offer (which almost all the "schools" and "teachers" I've found online don't) and I would charge something reasonable (though everyone will disagree on what can be considered reasonable). So, I don't necessarily think all teaching needs to be free. I think it depends on the subject and how unique it is, if it's something that the student can/will charge for in the future, the credibility of the teacher, and a plethora of other factors.

Overall, I wouldn't say it's "unethical" to charge for anyone, even a spell or something they can easily find/do themselves. It becomes unethical, for me, when you're charging $2000 for a prosperity spell (though it also becomes unbelievably stupid that you'd even do such a thing and even more so that anyone would pay it).

Paying for Services? - RealPagan- Paganism for the Real World

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