2015-07-31T04:07:51Z http://realpagan.net/forum/topics/faerie-and-dragonic-magic?feed=yes&xn_auth=no tag:realpagan.net,2015-04-13:6330711:Comment:243187 2015-04-13T15:29:21.131Z Edan http://realpagan.net/profile/JonathanWilliams

It's important to remember that while some ancient people's did practice the "Fairy Faith", by and large the kind folk were met with trepidation and even fear. It was in the best interest of everyone to keep them happy when capable and/or keep them out when necessary.<br /> <br /> On Beltane, yellow flowers were used as boundaries which the kind folk could not pass, but also did not offend them. This was generally the best outcome. An offering of cream could only help the issue.

It's important to remember that while some ancient people's did practice the "Fairy Faith", by and large the kind folk were met with trepidation and even fear. It was in the best interest of everyone to keep them happy when capable and/or keep them out when necessary.<br /> <br /> On Beltane, yellow flowers were used as boundaries which the kind folk could not pass, but also did not offend them. This was generally the best outcome. An offering of cream could only help the issue. tag:realpagan.net,2015-04-13:6330711:Comment:243355 2015-04-13T02:52:51.890Z Edan http://realpagan.net/profile/JonathanWilliams

<a href="http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/yeats/fip/index.htm" target="_blank">http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/yeats/fip/index.htm</a>

<a href="http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/yeats/fip/index.htm" target="_blank">http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/yeats/fip/index.htm</a> tag:realpagan.net,2015-04-13:6330711:Comment:243183 2015-04-13T02:46:37.287Z Edan http://realpagan.net/profile/JonathanWilliams

Fairy Legends and Traditions of the South of Ireland — Thomas Crofton<br /> <br /> The Banshee: The Irish Death Messenger — Patricia Lysaght<br /> <br /> The Secret Commonwealth and the Fairy Belief Complex — Brian Walsh<br /> <br /> The Fairy-Faith in Celtic Countries — W. Y. Evans Wentz

Fairy Legends and Traditions of the South of Ireland — Thomas Crofton<br /> <br /> The Banshee: The Irish Death Messenger — Patricia Lysaght<br /> <br /> The Secret Commonwealth and the Fairy Belief Complex — Brian Walsh<br /> <br /> The Fairy-Faith in Celtic Countries — W. Y. Evans Wentz tag:realpagan.net,2015-04-08:6330711:Comment:242803 2015-04-08T14:35:07.410Z AshanFox http://realpagan.net/profile/AshanFox

<p>Just a word about public perception regarding Fairies and Dragons. It can be very difficult to be taken seriously, even if you yourself are serious about pursuing these topics. Most of the time it isn't personal, but it does reflect on you personally (in most folks views) as there are an inordinate number of fantasy chasers and D&D types out there spattering the forums and pagan events with their wishful thinking. Far as most people you'll talk to can tell, very little makes you any…</p>

<p>Just a word about public perception regarding Fairies and Dragons. It can be very difficult to be taken seriously, even if you yourself are serious about pursuing these topics. Most of the time it isn't personal, but it does reflect on you personally (in most folks views) as there are an inordinate number of fantasy chasers and D&D types out there spattering the forums and pagan events with their wishful thinking. Far as most people you'll talk to can tell, very little makes you any different from the couple dozen fae-chasers and dragon hunters they've tripped over in the past. (Tends to go into the same bin as elves, unicorns, ring wraiths and magic pegasi...) Again, it's not personal. Those of us who have been around the block a time or twenty have seen our fair share of excitable people come and go, looking for validation and "more info" on whatever the latest rage happens to be this week. (Which would be fine, but most of the time they're sensation seekers in search of the sensational - not witchcraft. :P ) We can get a bit jaded to it. Lol - think of all the self-proclaimed 'hereditary witches,' vampires, werewolves, otherkin, werekin, warlocks, demonspawn, dragonborn, shadow walkers, hoodoo-voudou gurus and grand high muckety-mucks we've encountered, and I'm sure that you'll understand... </p> <p></p> <p>What it sounds like you're looking for are the Sidhe. They've been cutsied up, prettied up, glittered up, given mood stabilizers and/or happy pills to turn them into the "fairies" of popular culture. In short, they're not the same kind of critter. If you're serious, don't make the same mistakes that other seekers have - STUDY. All too many people have called on them expecting something cute and loving to show up, only to find that they were wrong. Very wrong. And "Oh hell! How do I get RID of these things?!?!" (And where the hell are my car keys? Where'd my wallet go? Where's my phone? Where's the BABY? What the hell!)</p> <p></p> <p>Hope this helps... </p> tag:realpagan.net,2014-11-25:6330711:Comment:235530 2014-11-25T13:30:00.965Z Diane http://realpagan.net/profile/DianeV12

<p>The Christians of the era of the medieval witch hunts (16-17th century) knew absolutely nothing about Wicca because it did not exist prior to the early 20th century, it is a new religion. The word Old English word wicca of course long predates the modern religion of Wicca, wicca means male sorcerer as wicce is Old English for female sorceress and eventually the Old english word wicca/wicce became the modern english word witch. The word wicce/wicca does not appear prior to Christianisation…</p>

<p>The Christians of the era of the medieval witch hunts (16-17th century) knew absolutely nothing about Wicca because it did not exist prior to the early 20th century, it is a new religion. The word Old English word wicca of course long predates the modern religion of Wicca, wicca means male sorcerer as wicce is Old English for female sorceress and eventually the Old english word wicca/wicce became the modern english word witch. The word wicce/wicca does not appear prior to Christianisation and based its usage in the early law codes can be considered as a catagory for all those who practiced the remnants of pagan religious practices which should not be confused with the types of magic practiced by modern witches.</p> <p>Prior to conversion to Christianity the pre Christian pagans were Romans, Celts and the Germanic tribes and the familiar is not a product of these religions or cultures, word and concept of the witches familiar is entirely of English and Scottish origin. In fact, the word and concept is first attested in witch hunt literature and trials of England and Scotland and was part of the religious hysteria of this age. The depiction of the cat as a witches familiar is modern not pagan most likely based on a sanitised version of folklore and witch trial material, but thank you for enlightening me as to its use and meaning to those who practice modern witchcraft.</p> <p>In British folklore 15-16th century cunning folk had an animal familiar, sometimes a cat or dog (which were also said to be faeries in disguise) but Cunning folk were not witches. Cunning men and women practised herbal healing and folk magic, some of which was based on Christian liturgy, they were often called upon to remove curses on people and livestock that were commonly thought to have been caused by witches. There was a strong delineation between the witch who was thought to practice malevolent magic and Cunning men and women who practiced folk magic, though toward the end of the witch hunts these lines became blurred and some Cunning folk were accused of witchcraft.</p> <p>It is good that your dragon is inspiring you to literary pursuits, I wish you luck with that. Here are a couple of sites that discuss the history of the witches familiar that you may find interesting:</p> <p></p> <p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.strangehorizons.com/2003/20030217/pyewacket.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.strangehorizons.com/2003/20030217/pyewacket.shtml</a></p> <p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.witchtrials.co.uk/familiar.html" target="_blank">http://www.witchtrials.co.uk/familiar.html</a> </p> <p></p> <p><cite>Baccara Moon said:</cite></p> <blockquote cite="http://realpagan.net/forum/topics/faerie-and-dragonic-magic?commentId=6330711%3AComment%3A235527&xg_source=msg_com_forum#6330711Comment235527"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Well, the use of Familiar in that term by Christians of the time, just goes to show you how little they actually knew about Wicca and Pagan Traditions.  What I mean by Familiar, is an animal or entity that aids a Witch or Wizard.  This can be a Physical Familiar or Spiritual Familiar and sometimes does include Demons.</p> <p></p> <p>Many Witches and Wizards have Cats as Familiars for example.  The Cats can help by keeping bad luck away...or even in rituals.  A Familiar is not a Pet, nor does the Witch or Wizard actually own the animal like people own Dogs or Cats as pets.  A Familiar is an Ally or Friend to the Witch or Wizard.  Depending on which ever the Witch or Wizard wishes to refer to them as.  Most Familiars that have higher levels of intelligence...such as Dragons...prefer to be called Friend or at least be referred to as an equal.</p> <p></p> <p>Some Dragons, not all like you said, do in fact ask for Treasure as a reward.  Being a Horde of Treasure does not necessarily make something Evil or Bad, nor does it make it Negative.  Dragons also have valuable information and can even find out information for you, if you have a Pact with them.</p> <p></p> <p>In my case, as mentioned earlier, the Dragon may at times give me information, ideas, inventions, stories to write, things that I can make money off of.  Often times this comes in the form of Suggestive Hypnosis.  Usually while you're sleeping.  The Pact you make with them allows this to happen and the person making the Pact must be fully aware of this at the time of the Pact.  That way there are no surprises.  Dragons are quite honourable creatures or can be, depending on the Dragon.</p> <p></p> <p>As I mentioned before, my Dragon is a more Modern Dragon and is Blue and White, thus it breathes Blue Fire, as well as Holy Fire.  My Previous Mentor has a Dragon Familiar that has multiple colors, more than just two.  The Scales often represent what it is capable of doing.  For example, Red Dragons can breathe Physical Fire, while Black Dragons can tap into the Dark Matter of the Universe itself.</p> <p></p> <p>At this point, all this information is what my Spirit is telling me as I write it out.  So, this is all that I know about Dragons at this point.  Of course, it could be my Dragon Familiar that is speaking to me as well.</p> </div> </div> </blockquote> tag:realpagan.net,2014-11-25:6330711:Comment:235527 2014-11-25T03:43:46.056Z Baccara Moon http://realpagan.net/profile/BaccaraMoon701

<p>Well, the use of Familiar in that term by Christians of the time, just goes to show you how little they actually knew about Wicca and Pagan Traditions.  What I mean by Familiar, is an animal or entity that aids a Witch or Wizard.  This can be a Physical Familiar or Spiritual Familiar and sometimes does include Demons.</p> <p></p> <p>Many Witches and Wizards have Cats as Familiars for example.  The Cats can help by keeping bad luck away...or even in rituals.  A Familiar is not a Pet, nor does…</p>

<p>Well, the use of Familiar in that term by Christians of the time, just goes to show you how little they actually knew about Wicca and Pagan Traditions.  What I mean by Familiar, is an animal or entity that aids a Witch or Wizard.  This can be a Physical Familiar or Spiritual Familiar and sometimes does include Demons.</p> <p></p> <p>Many Witches and Wizards have Cats as Familiars for example.  The Cats can help by keeping bad luck away...or even in rituals.  A Familiar is not a Pet, nor does the Witch or Wizard actually own the animal like people own Dogs or Cats as pets.  A Familiar is an Ally or Friend to the Witch or Wizard.  Depending on which ever the Witch or Wizard wishes to refer to them as.  Most Familiars that have higher levels of intelligence...such as Dragons...prefer to be called Friend or at least be referred to as an equal.</p> <p></p> <p>Some Dragons, not all like you said, do in fact ask for Treasure as a reward.  Being a Horde of Treasure does not necessarily make something Evil or Bad, nor does it make it Negative.  Dragons also have valuable information and can even find out information for you, if you have a Pact with them.</p> <p></p> <p>In my case, as mentioned earlier, the Dragon may at times give me information, ideas, inventions, stories to write, things that I can make money off of.  Often times this comes in the form of Suggestive Hypnosis.  Usually while you're sleeping.  The Pact you make with them allows this to happen and the person making the Pact must be fully aware of this at the time of the Pact.  That way there are no surprises.  Dragons are quite honourable creatures or can be, depending on the Dragon.</p> <p></p> <p>As I mentioned before, my Dragon is a more Modern Dragon and is Blue and White, thus it breathes Blue Fire, as well as Holy Fire.  My Previous Mentor has a Dragon Familiar that has multiple colors, more than just two.  The Scales often represent what it is capable of doing.  For example, Red Dragons can breathe Physical Fire, while Black Dragons can tap into the Dark Matter of the Universe itself.</p> <p></p> <p>At this point, all this information is what my Spirit is telling me as I write it out.  So, this is all that I know about Dragons at this point.  Of course, it could be my Dragon Familiar that is speaking to me as well.</p> tag:realpagan.net,2014-11-25:6330711:Comment:235627 2014-11-25T00:02:43.793Z Diane http://realpagan.net/profile/DianeV12

<p>As a GR I have a very jaundiced view of dragons in the Germanic languages (Old Norse, Old Saxon, Gothic, Old German etc) they were classified as worms (Old English wyrm, Old Norse ormr) along with many other creatures and insects such as serpents and maggots. In Germanic (Scandinavian, German and English) mythology and folklore they are related to greed, putrefaction and disease so I can't help thinking that modern Dragonoph must be related to the dragons of Asia rather than those of the…</p>

<p>As a GR I have a very jaundiced view of dragons in the Germanic languages (Old Norse, Old Saxon, Gothic, Old German etc) they were classified as worms (Old English wyrm, Old Norse ormr) along with many other creatures and insects such as serpents and maggots. In Germanic (Scandinavian, German and English) mythology and folklore they are related to greed, putrefaction and disease so I can't help thinking that modern Dragonoph must be related to the dragons of Asia rather than those of the mythologic Germanic world.</p> <p>The royal Chinese dynasties had a dragon emblem but no European royalty would have had a dragon familiar? Are you conflating familiar with European dragon heraldry which, as with all heradry had its origins in the Christian medieval period? Are all dragons interested in treasure? I know this is specific to Germanic mythology, where they are gold hoarders which was considered socially unacceptable as Kings were expected to gift gold to maintain ties of loyalty. Another good reason to research other cultures is that you don't want to be giving your hard earned gold away only to realise that your dragon is not interested in gold, for example I think food may be the traditional offering to Chinese's dragons. You should research types of dragons as there are many different types, they may have different areas of influence.</p> <p>When you say familiar what exactly do you mean? I am not a witch so my only understanding of this word is from its origins in the 'witch trials' of the 16-17th century where a familiar was a part animal and part demon which required the blood from the witch it was attached to/had a pact with; it left the so called witches mark that the witchfinders would look for. As far as I know it is of medieval Christian origin and was not used or known as a concept prior to the period in history known as the witch hunts, which of course killed thousands likely none of whom where witches.</p> <p>So I would be interested in what the word familiar means now and if it is accepted by modern witches or if it is related to or the same as several other words and phrases that pop up from time to time such as animal spirits, power animal and the baffling use of totem animal by neopagans? </p> <p></p> <p></p> tag:realpagan.net,2014-11-23:6330711:Comment:235516 2014-11-23T17:53:35.998Z Baccara Moon http://realpagan.net/profile/BaccaraMoon701

<p>That is true, I'll have to do more research I guess on how different cultures see them.  All I know is that ever since I was little, I've had a strong interest in Dragons.  Most of my family does actually.  So, it could be that my Family is decendant of a King some where and that Royal Family had Dragon Familiars.  Why though I'd have one now, I have no idea, I just know that sometimes they make pacts.  Often times, those pacts include half of what you make in treasure within each realm you…</p>

<p>That is true, I'll have to do more research I guess on how different cultures see them.  All I know is that ever since I was little, I've had a strong interest in Dragons.  Most of my family does actually.  So, it could be that my Family is decendant of a King some where and that Royal Family had Dragon Familiars.  Why though I'd have one now, I have no idea, I just know that sometimes they make pacts.  Often times, those pacts include half of what you make in treasure within each realm you happen to be.  So, half the money I make from here on out...would have to go to my Familiar in a storage area some where.  I do know that because of these pacts, depending on how you treat your Dragon Familiar, they may provide you with information and even ways/methods of making money to kind of...speed up the process.  Though in this  life time...I'm looking for legit ways to harness that wealth...such as writing novels, information ebooks, and a Minecraft Magazine.  We'll see how that goes.  It'll be an interesting journey here on out.</p> tag:realpagan.net,2014-11-23:6330711:Comment:235662 2014-11-23T13:11:25.131Z Diane http://realpagan.net/profile/DianeV12

<p>No, not all Dragons are bad how they are perceived varies from culture to culture, as I am GR I can only speak from the perspective of Germanic mythology. So it would be best to research the mythologies of other cultures to see how dragons are portrayed and what they represent. Dragons are not generic throughout cultures so beware of generalising, as with many things what is appropriate in one culture may be inappropriate in another. For example, Germanic neopagans would not honour the…</p>

<p>No, not all Dragons are bad how they are perceived varies from culture to culture, as I am GR I can only speak from the perspective of Germanic mythology. So it would be best to research the mythologies of other cultures to see how dragons are portrayed and what they represent. Dragons are not generic throughout cultures so beware of generalising, as with many things what is appropriate in one culture may be inappropriate in another. For example, Germanic neopagans would not honour the dragons from our mythology because they represent socially unaceptable values. <br/> <br/> <cite>Baccara Moon said:</cite></p> <blockquote cite="http://realpagan.net/forum/topics/faerie-and-dragonic-magic?commentId=6330711%3AComment%3A235660&xg_source=msg_com_forum#6330711Comment235660"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Thanks for the resources, I'm definitely going to start reading them in the next day or two.  I wonder though about the Dragons...not all Dragons are bad...just like people.  Also, people can perceive things differently from what they really are.  I can't help but wonder why I have a Dragon Familiar.  I think I know the answer to that though.  Sometimes they make packs with other beings out of a desire to gain treasure in various forms.  That much I'm aware of.  This particular Dragon has apparently been with me for a while and sometimes shares information with me...though at the moment...I have not really connected with my Dragon Familiar, except for once...that was to chase a bunch of hounds out of my Mentors house.  I know their Fire is nothing to mess with too.  That's about all I know at the moment.  Also, because I see them differently than most Humans do...that could very well affect the pact too.  They like equality just as much as the next being does.<br/> <br/> <cite>Diane said:</cite></p> <blockquote cite="http://realpagan.net/forum/topics/faerie-and-dragonic-magic#6330711Comment235424"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I have had a couple of discussions with Edan who is CR regarding the fae, from a GR perspective they seem to be similar to the Icelandic l<span>andvættir and the Anglo Saxon <span>ælf, in that they are connected to the land and fertility of the land. Within Germanic neopaganism these are important beings to whom we make offerings, they are intimately connected to the wellbeing of the land and capable making humans and animals ill.  So if you wish your land to flourish, as I do,  best to maintain a good relationship with regular offerings.</span></span></p> <p><span><span>Dragons in the Germanic mytholgy are universally regarded as dangerous creatures who exhibit undesirable personality traits, such as, greed, destruction and malice.</span></span></p> <p><span><span>There are some interesting Celtic sources below.</span></span></p> <p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/cdm/index.htm" target="_blank">http://sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/cdm/index.htm</a></p> <p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.luminarium.org/mythology/ireland/" target="_blank">http://www.luminarium.org/mythology/ireland/</a></p> <p><a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.academia.edu/300335/Faerie_Folklore_in_Medieval_Tales_an_Introduction" target="_blank">https://www.academia.edu/300335/Faerie_Folklore_in_Medieval_Tales_a...</a></p> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> </div> </blockquote> tag:realpagan.net,2014-11-22:6330711:Comment:235660 2014-11-22T22:54:06.597Z Baccara Moon http://realpagan.net/profile/BaccaraMoon701

<p>Thanks for the resources, I'm definitely going to start reading them in the next day or two.  I wonder though about the Dragons...not all Dragons are bad...just like people.  Also, people can perceive things differently from what they really are.  I can't help but wonder why I have a Dragon Familiar.  I think I know the answer to that though.  Sometimes they make packs with other beings out of a desire to gain treasure in various forms.  That much I'm aware of.  This particular Dragon has…</p>

<p>Thanks for the resources, I'm definitely going to start reading them in the next day or two.  I wonder though about the Dragons...not all Dragons are bad...just like people.  Also, people can perceive things differently from what they really are.  I can't help but wonder why I have a Dragon Familiar.  I think I know the answer to that though.  Sometimes they make packs with other beings out of a desire to gain treasure in various forms.  That much I'm aware of.  This particular Dragon has apparently been with me for a while and sometimes shares information with me...though at the moment...I have not really connected with my Dragon Familiar, except for once...that was to chase a bunch of hounds out of my Mentors house.  I know their Fire is nothing to mess with too.  That's about all I know at the moment.  Also, because I see them differently than most Humans do...that could very well affect the pact too.  They like equality just as much as the next being does.<br/> <br/> <cite>Diane said:</cite></p> <blockquote cite="http://realpagan.net/forum/topics/faerie-and-dragonic-magic#6330711Comment235424"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I have had a couple of discussions with Edan who is CR regarding the fae, from a GR perspective they seem to be similar to the Icelandic l<span>andvættir and the Anglo Saxon <span>ælf, in that they are connected to the land and fertility of the land. Within Germanic neopaganism these are important beings to whom we make offerings, they are intimately connected to the wellbeing of the land and capable making humans and animals ill.  So if you wish your land to flourish, as I do,  best to maintain a good relationship with regular offerings.</span></span></p> <p><span><span>Dragons in the Germanic mytholgy are universally regarded as dangerous creatures who exhibit undesirable personality traits, such as, greed, destruction and malice.</span></span></p> <p><span><span>There are some interesting Celtic sources below.</span></span></p> <p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/cdm/index.htm" target="_blank">http://sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/cdm/index.htm</a></p> <p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.luminarium.org/mythology/ireland/" target="_blank">http://www.luminarium.org/mythology/ireland/</a></p> <p><a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.academia.edu/300335/Faerie_Folklore_in_Medieval_Tales_an_Introduction" target="_blank">https://www.academia.edu/300335/Faerie_Folklore_in_Medieval_Tales_a...</a></p> </div> </div> </blockquote>