2013-12-19T08:33:43Z http://realpagan.net/forum/topics/belief-and-practice-in-btw?feed=yes&xn_auth=no tag:realpagan.net,2012-05-01:6330711:Comment:171919 2012-05-01T20:25:39.738Z Oakthorne http://realpagan.net/profile/oakthorne

<p>Really? Heh. Awesome. :)</p>

<p>Really? Heh. Awesome. :)</p> tag:realpagan.net,2012-05-01:6330711:Comment:171820 2012-05-01T20:20:18.554Z Alorer (The Gecko) http://realpagan.net/profile/AlorerStef

<p>Just found this thread as a link on the site of a Gardnerian coven (one for which a vouch was asked on Amber and Jet). :D</p>

<p>Just found this thread as a link on the site of a Gardnerian coven (one for which a vouch was asked on Amber and Jet). :D</p> tag:realpagan.net,2011-09-02:6330711:Comment:133561 2011-09-02T09:37:33.791Z Rakshiri (push pop) http://realpagan.net/profile/Rakshiri

Thank you for your response on this, and the original post Oak, it was VERY informative and helpful!<br></br> <br></br> <cite>Oakthorne said:</cite><br /> <blockquote cite="http://realpagan.net/forum/topics/belief-and-practice-in-btw#6330711Comment40667"><div><p>I have folks in my lineage who are atheists, in fact. :)</p> <p> </p> <p>Belief is not defined in the praxis at all - we perform these rites as they are intended to be performed, using the skills we have developed in the priesthood. The skills that…</p> </div> </blockquote>

Thank you for your response on this, and the original post Oak, it was VERY informative and helpful!<br/> <br/> <cite>Oakthorne said:</cite><br /> <blockquote cite="http://realpagan.net/forum/topics/belief-and-practice-in-btw#6330711Comment40667"><div><p>I have folks in my lineage who are atheists, in fact. :)</p> <p> </p> <p>Belief is not defined in the praxis at all - we perform these rites as they are intended to be performed, using the skills we have developed in the priesthood. The skills that are used in magic are used in the performance of these rites: the raising of energy, active visualization, presence with Self and communion with Deep Mind. These skills require no belief to learn - I can teach them to someone who actively disbelieves in the concept of energy or their own ability to visualize, for instance. Once learned, they are exercised properly in the rites, and the experience they have is true, within the personal context, and unquestionable by those outside of it.</p> <p> </p> <p>Thus, if someone performs the rites properly (in both esoteric and exoteric applications - that is, doing the internal work/skills while also using the right tools, gestures, breathing and work), and it results in their belief that they are merely interacting with archetypes from deep in the human subconscious, devoid of any true individual identity or spark of divinity, then that is true, in their personal context, and irrefutable within the Work of the Wica.</p> <p><br/> <cite>Sangraal said:</cite></p> <blockquote cite="http://realpagan.net/forum/topics/belief-and-practice-in-btw?commentId=6330711%3AComment%3A40663&xg_source=msg_com_forum#6330711Comment40663"><div>This is a lovely post, Oak, and very informative. While I believe in served to answer that question quite well, another relevant one comes to surface:<br/> <br/> To what degree of belief is defined in the practice?<br/> <br/> You suggested that the Lord and Lady are revealed to each Wica in an often deeply, personal matter. However, would the experience of regulating them to mere symbols/archetypes be as valid? I ask, because I have heard it argued that one could very well be atheist and proper Wica, because it's based upon what you do, rather than believe. But, wouldn't belief have a role in that practice, too?</div> </blockquote> </div> </blockquote> tag:realpagan.net,2011-02-19:6330711:Comment:51989 2011-02-19T00:25:42.169Z Oakthorne http://realpagan.net/profile/oakthorne

<p>Dean: Ultimately, it's because we don't necessarily worship - we perform our rites.</p> <p> </p> <p>Now, to most of us, the reason we are performing these rites is as an act of worship. But that's something inherent in us, not in the rites. Others perform them as part of strengthening community ties, for instance, or as a psychological endeavor connecting to archetypes in a way that aligns the subconscious and conscious.</p> <p> </p> <p>We simply <em>do</em>. Each witch has his or her own…</p>

<p>Dean: Ultimately, it's because we don't necessarily worship - we perform our rites.</p> <p> </p> <p>Now, to most of us, the reason we are performing these rites is as an act of worship. But that's something inherent in us, not in the rites. Others perform them as part of strengthening community ties, for instance, or as a psychological endeavor connecting to archetypes in a way that aligns the subconscious and conscious.</p> <p> </p> <p>We simply <em>do</em>. Each witch has his or her own reasons <em>why</em> we do.</p> <p> </p> tag:realpagan.net,2011-02-18:6330711:Comment:51797 2011-02-18T23:40:35.912Z Dean http://realpagan.net/profile/Dean

I am still pondering the Atheist Wica. I am not sure I understand how one can be atheist and still worship. <br/>

I am still pondering the Atheist Wica. I am not sure I understand how one can be atheist and still worship. <br/> tag:realpagan.net,2011-02-18:6330711:Comment:52089 2011-02-18T23:32:28.876Z Daniel O'Neill (Cat wrangler) http://realpagan.net/profile/DanielONeill

Well spoken your Oakness. A good an concise read  Sir as always. I have to admit reading your work make my brain hurt some times but I find it always  well worth the pain. Cheers Mate!

Well spoken your Oakness. A good an concise read  Sir as always. I have to admit reading your work make my brain hurt some times but I find it always  well worth the pain. Cheers Mate! tag:realpagan.net,2011-02-18:6330711:Comment:52085 2011-02-18T22:27:14.268Z ren http://realpagan.net/profile/ren

Thanks. I'm reading it now. ..well met. It's an easy to read article. <br/>

Thanks. I'm reading it now. ..well met. It's an easy to read article. <br/> tag:realpagan.net,2011-02-18:6330711:Comment:51967 2011-02-18T18:35:24.652Z Oakthorne http://realpagan.net/profile/oakthorne

Ren: The differences between BTW and other Crafts are fairly numerous. Or rather, since "other Crafts" are all distinct from one another, it's more useful to enumerate the traits that make up BTW. I addressed these traits a while ago, in an essay called "<a href="http://www.axis-mundi-oc.org/Axis_Mundi_Outer_Court/%E2%80%A2_FtO%3A_BTW_%E2%80%A2.html" target="_blank">What is British Traditional Witchcraft</a>?"

Ren: The differences between BTW and other Crafts are fairly numerous. Or rather, since "other Crafts" are all distinct from one another, it's more useful to enumerate the traits that make up BTW. I addressed these traits a while ago, in an essay called "<a href="http://www.axis-mundi-oc.org/Axis_Mundi_Outer_Court/%E2%80%A2_FtO%3A_BTW_%E2%80%A2.html" target="_blank">What is British Traditional Witchcraft</a>?" tag:realpagan.net,2011-02-18:6330711:Comment:51870 2011-02-18T16:49:32.002Z ren http://realpagan.net/profile/ren

<p>It's very nice, Oakthorne. Very revealing. And in order to clear up any confusion as to the differences between British Traditional Wicca and everything that is not Wicca, is one permitted to reveal those differences? I think it is important to talk about theology. But I still think it is important to keep some methods within the shadows.</p> <p> </p>

<p>It's very nice, Oakthorne. Very revealing. And in order to clear up any confusion as to the differences between British Traditional Wicca and everything that is not Wicca, is one permitted to reveal those differences? I think it is important to talk about theology. But I still think it is important to keep some methods within the shadows.</p> <p> </p> tag:realpagan.net,2011-02-16:6330711:Comment:50916 2011-02-16T11:01:33.672Z Gabrielle Cleary http://realpagan.net/profile/GabrielleCleary

Beautifully written Oakthorne. I agree wholeheartedly.

Beautifully written Oakthorne. I agree wholeheartedly.